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I have used the ETB Battle in a nightmare sequence for the DOMINION Fan Cut.
But I reworked most of the shots to create something totaly diffrn’t, Merrin has a Dream early in Dominion, The Nightmare comes much later when things are sarting to get really shity between the natives and the british soldiers, Basicly this scene is showing Merrin what could happen if he dosn’t fight the Devil.
I know it’s taking along time to re-edit the movie, but it’s not easy, Ive hade to redo several things again and again because I want the picture quality as good as I can get it. I may post a few screenshots of the scene, but they would be spoilers, so I give a fair warning.The time frame was even really off in ETB.
Karras’s superiors mention:
“…ten, twelve years ago…”
ETB 1949?— The Exorcist 1970’s?“…nearly lasted a month…”
Whaaat?!?My explanation goes like this (and feel free to accept it)…
1947 (or if you prefer E:TB as your Exorcist prequel, 1949). Merrin leaves Kenya for Rome, having returned to the fold he’d abandoned three years earlier under tragic circumstances. He gave his report. Not only did his colleagues buy it, the precise location of the exorcism caught their interest: In Africa, a buried, pristine, Byzantine church. And with his fame as an archaeologist and author, and now having driven out a demon — The Devil Himself — a legend was born and made its way accross the Atlantic eventually becoming a bigger and more incredible story. What was just a night-long exorcism, if that, became “months.”
As much as I’d have liked to have seen a months-long exorcism, it’s kind of more realistic and validates Dominion since it DOESN’T match up. The official’s account was not a solid one. He wasn’t sure of all the details (notice when he talks, he’s guessing; he’s got the basic story), so he gave a guess. Lots of legends change over time, and this was one.
I dunno, am I making sense? 😮
M.I.K.E.
You’re right, the dialogue in the original does seem to lean more towards heresay.
I just wish Harlin would have had tried to follow that kernel of info a little bit more accurately.
‘This is what we heard… now, this is what happened!’ This would have made The Exorcist mythology flow a lot better for me.
And THIS very concept is what got me excited about the film in the first place. Back when I heard it was being made.
I have to go against the grain here. While most of you are calling Dominion “art†and ETB “schlock†I don’t think that is an accurate description of either film.
I can really see why the studio shelved Dominion. It was boring. When we finally get to the exorcism, a young Merrin versus the devil himself – we get all of a single slap and a “temptation†that shows that things would have turned out worse in Holland had he acted differently.
While I don’t go to see an Exorcist film hoping for a gore fest – I do expect there to be a dramatic confrontation and Dominion did not deliver.
Oooh, the devil made a cripple boy well and then he floated around in the lotus position. Yay. Ooh, watch how Gabriel Mann “channels†Judge Reinhold!
ETB on the other hand, had a lot of great elements.
1) I thought the idea of the place where Lucifer fell was interesting. The two battles really showed that a place could be possessed – just like a person.
2) Pazuzu. The statue, the leather impression – it tied it to the first film very well. As Sparky said – when you saw in the original how he reacted to the discovery – you knew it must have been quite a story. At least ETB tries to tell it.
3) I think Skarsgard played Merrin as much more weary in ETB than in Dominion and it fits the character. How much of that was planned and how much of that was having to film the same story a 2nd time I don’t know, but it worked. I loved the final scene with the hat and the bag…
Everyone here will probably throw crosses at me for what I’m about to say.
I think The Begining was superior to Dominion.
Dominion was a well thought out film with a decent story, good characters and and a superior heart wrenching opening with the Nazis.
However as much as I wanted this movie to be better than “The Beginning” (because it would have proved that studio execs at Morgan Crrek were idiots), it wasn’t a better film so I am forced to say that Morgan Creek made the right choice.
But to be fair, Paul Shrader didn’t get the chance to finish the movie and Dominion is more or less a rough cut.
One of my biggest gripes about Dominion was it didn’t feel like an Exorcist movie. The exorism and the possesion was too subtle. They got the Demon all wrong and it didn’t feel like the same Demon from the Exorcist. The Demon had red eyes (instead of yellow eyes like on the Exorcist and EIII:Legion) and the voice and personality of the Demon was not same as in the original Exorcist.
BTW What’s up with that cheesy CGI snake ? They were filming in Africa. They couldn’t find a real snake to slither in front of the camera ?
As for “The Beginning”, it was a decent flick and I enjoyed it overall. It wasn’t as good as EIII but I thought it was way better than EII:TH.
Renny Harlin is a strange choice for directing an Exorcist movie. He’s a great action and adventure director (Cliffhanger, Deep Blue Sea and Die Hard), but as for suspence and horror, I would have seeked out a different director.
As for the casting, Stellen Skarsgard did an excellent job in both versions as father Merrin. I only wished they ended that final scene with Tubiler Bells as the end credits rolled.
I do like the end of ETB (the bit where it goes black & the credits roll -lol!)
No serioulsy you are entitled to your opinion RatBoy that’s the fun of this website :-). I liked the end of ETB where Merrin walks off over a courtyard (?) – been a while since I’ve seen it – BUT even that was dodgey CGI for some reason.
I do agree with you, Harlin is a strange choice, Carpenter, Romero, Lynch or Cronenberg would’ve been cool & interesting choices. But then again Harlin did direct one of the Nightmare on Elm Street films!
I also agree with you that Stellen did a top job in both films.I essentially think they are the same film. They are both equally as graphic as each other -just one more so than the other – i.e. one is intellectually graphic where the other is graphic in gore.
I do think you guys, Ratboy (Chum from Jaws forum), Fletcher, and Merrin make valid points, but to some extent aren’t these just gripes about surface style? I mean the real meat of any film is not the CGI, the look of anything, or any single image– it’s what they all represent when put together as a single element of the big picture, which is really all about the content and substance. I’ve been under the belief that you can’t duplicate the fears that the original Exorcist created and explored in 1973. Too much time has past, bad sequels have destroyed the possibility of continuing the impact the original had on any audience, and we’ve been desensitized by more violent and gory pictures attempting to top The Exorcist ever since.
So I do agree with what Paul Schrader said about Dominion. It’s not a true horror film because the concept of a ‘reverse possession’ where the demon is curing someone as opposed to doing harm is not fear inducing. The closest it will do to scare you is the miraculous nature of it, but in a sense that maybe is why Blatty and supposedly Friedkin liked this film: because it was SO DIFFERENT from The Exorcist. Friedkin has constantly denounced many films for blantantly ripping off and duplicating The Exorcist– even the sequels like The Exorcist III which is not the best adapted work by Blatty when compared to The Exorcist and The Ninth Configuration. So in a sense, Dominion is more of a lead-up to The Exorcist in what would come for the character of Fr. Merrin. It would probably be quite apocryphal if the film decided to make itself more like The Exorcist, which would probably cause more of a repeat of the same ‘scary’ stuff that was already done far better in the original. The problem of ETB (which attempts to scare us with the same old stuff) from what I’ve seen is that it doesn’t treat the material with as much psychological seriousness as Dominion attempts to. ETB corelates more with the styles and supposed epic showcases of The Heretic since they are virtually identical in story subplots and surface details. So to be fair, I see what you guys are getting at, but perhaps the point is to see the general picture and not nit-pick at things that may not be that important. If picking at those details were that necessary, then every sequel and following episode to any story in existence would fall pray to it not being exactly “like” its predecessor, which would mean every sequel would have to be more like a remake than the ever difficult balancing act of designing a story with new elements to progress the series along and the old for nostalgic purposes (which are somewhat pointless in prequels since the story takes place prior to the original installment), which generally decreases as the films chase other ideas as the years progress.
I may face a firing squad but im not a fan of either but ETB i consider to be a superior horror movie it did at least have some creepy moments and i did like the opening.
I think Dominion is very weak indeed no scares at all no feeling of unease and the effects were very poor indeed.
I wanted Dominion to be better as i admire schraders past work but it turns out to be quite dull really …sorry folks.
The german sequence is better in ETB it just felt more emotional i think the leads performance was better more weary.
That said both are laughable during the exorcism moments noone can ever repulse us quite like Friedkin did , bad language is just part of everyday speech now , in those days it was not the norm especially hearing a child do it. I nearly fell off my chair laughing it stopped the movie in its tracks.
Neither has the atmosphere or eerie docu feeling of the original.
Perhaps i need to read the previous posts more or i missed the point i found little intellectual in Dominion just a badly made horror flick.
I just love horror movies but Dominion failed for me and was the worst of the 2.
One thing about ETB was that it was technically way ahead , the sound is very good on my home cinema amp and the DTS is simply very eerie with voices and whispering coming from behind etc so i think it is quite a show peice in that respect.
Going back now to read some more posts to see if Dominion deserves another watch.Greg, thank you for a great, sensible opinion; we’re on the same page re: this prequel. 🙂
Let me just sum up it up in my own words, though:
There will never be another film close to the Friedkin/Blatty original. So Schrader says, “Don’t bother trying.” Well, Harlin did.
And we have one film (see if you can guess which while you read this!) with distracting shot-for-shot “tributes” to the original, which coupled with a story full of plotholes and inane “scares” is ultimately only a glimmer of the film it imposes itself as being a prequel to.
And we have the other film which dares to show that the devil is capable of possessing male human beings; the other film, though, ultimately reveals that the devil is unimaginative and/or incapable (scared?) of possessing a male — the other film’s devil possesses a female and turns her into a hag, in a vain attempt to make people say, “Oh, Regan McNeil’s back!” But Paul Schrader’s Dominion presents a devil, a demon, who is in every way the opposite of Regan McNeil. See…? The devil is taken seriously — Satan hates ALL of humanity. Not just white metropolitan East Coast American girls.
Last point I’d like to make: Dominion is a prequel. In it Lankester Merrin defeats the Devil. Then you have the 1973 film Dominion prequels — THE EXORCIST. It in Lankester Merrin is pulled back into the exorcism game, when the Devil wants revenge. The Devil is not happy. Thus, the possessed to gradually ravaged. It’s personal for Pazuzu, the demon, the Devil, what have you — LEGION. THEREFORE, Schrader was right in proclaiming Caleb Carr’s idea (of making the possessed Cheche gradually PERFECTED by the possession) an INGENIUS IDEA.
Why an INGENIUS IDEA…? It was THE sure-fire way to not rehash the Friedkin film, and to present a prequel — a preceeding story — a story not simply having Merrin fight the devil (that’s all Harlin and co. effectively achieved). But instead, Schrader successfully made the story about Merrin AND his enemy. THE Enemy. And, the motivation the Enemy would need to years later possess and ravage Regan MacNeil in effort, ultimately, to exact revenge.
Bla, bla, bla, I see that I’m going in circles.
Anyway, Harlin’s film had some genuinely interesting ideas, but they were so few and far between that I prefer the braver, more imaginitive Dominion, even if people seem to want to demand a carbon copy of the Friedkin film. If only the knew how worthless such would be.
A prequel, as long as it’s a good, solid story, could be any kind of story; prequels, when set years prior to the “original”, generally will by default be opened up to tell a VERY different story. GOOD, I say!
If people want a Friedkin-Exorcist for their Exorcist prequel, I imagine they truly, honestly DON’T want a prequel. Not a true prequel. And if not a true prequel, yeah… WHY BOTHER?
M.I.K.E.
Excellent points it has made me want to revisit the movie (Dominion ) but as movies are a visual medium i think it is valid to say Dominion as a peice of ‘visual entertainment’ fails miserably and you can see why it was dropped by studio execs.
Movies are essentially all surface so it is not easy to like Dominion , its message no matter how powerful is lost in a poorly executed project.
I personally do not want either movie or any follow up , its stinks of money making. But as we are ‘forced’ to watch out of curiousity i think they should at least execute it with some style and invoke interest. Dominion is not at all entertaining and its story no matter how intellectual it trys to be falls down in its production.Both movies for me fail in this respect ones message is lost in a dull plod and amatuer almost unfinshed presentation.
ETB is way over the top its lavish opening ruined by over the top set peices and is stopped dead in its tracks by the closing ‘exorcism’ it really is very funny and is a simple re hash of moments from the original.Don’t get me wrong i think both are essentialy ill advised but when you put Exorcist on something comparisons to the original are hard to avoid in that respect we are dealing with 2 sub par films and somewhere in between is a worthy prequel.
As pointed out Dominion is less surface gloss but along the way it forgot something important to give us a good chill so its easy for Schrader to say after the fact its not a horror film but it is presenting horryfying acts and fantastical situations , he is covering himself because he knows it fails in this respect.
As a piece of horror ETB has its moments and i did actually like the odd nod echoing the original movie i think it tied it in somewhat but the final act is dreadful no arguement.
But anyway your arguments have convinced me i missed something so im gonna purchase Dominion and have a look again.
As i said between the 2 i think there is a very decent movie one which perhaps a fan edit would bring out?Merrin, I appreciate your views, but let me just offer…
That Dominion does not in fact fail as a piece of visual entertainment. How can one NOT be entertained by it…? Whether it was in fact an EXORCIST-series film or not, it’s interesting from the get-go, and maintains, transcending its flaws. At the minimum, it’s a good piece of historical fiction (1940s Kenya and Holland) with “fantasy” elements (A Byzantine church is found in Kenya, in Africa; a myth. A good one, too. And demons, exorcists, possession, and exorcism… always worth checking out. And if it offers something new, a new spin on established concepts, even better. Maybe from an American/Hollywood POV it fails, I can buy that; Morgan Creek changed their mind and remade the film to suit… American Hollywood-fixated audiences.
I respect your opinion that the message is lost in a “poorly executed project”, but I completely disagree — not everyone will agree with you, nor with me. I also think it’s easy to like Dominion, whether from a fan’s POV, or from a non-fan’s… IF the individual has an open mind, as cliche as that sounds. At the minimum, it’s got some (not necessarily all, but ENOUGH to make my point) good acting — an opinion of many who’ve seen it. All in all, we’re satisfied.
“I personally do not want either movie or any follow up , its stinks of money making.”
Look, I agree with you to an extent. But I would say: The Harlin film should be your primary target here, given your opinion; the two aren’t equels on so many levels. Remember that Hollywood studios make movies to make money. They made Dominion, but, wanting to make more money, they made the film that would be cheap shock and thrill after cheap shock and thrill. Anything less of a film (Dominion) would by default become less of a money-vacuuming whore, so to speak. Morgan Creek orignially wanted to make Dominion. They believed in it. Then they thought, “We could dumb it down and make a brand new movie instead.” It’s fine to hate both prequels, given they are in fact to differnt degrees cash-ins. But I really think it’s innaccurate to consider the two virtually the same level of filmmaking, prequel, and specifically Exorcist prequel. Apples and oranges. You watch one for one reason, and the other for another.
And Dominion’s got style all over the place. Creep factor would have been a better thing to wish for; I agree, it COULD HAVE benefited from more creepiness and such; a few frames here and a few there, at least. BUT: That’s NOT the script they shot, it wasn’t the one written. They should’ve thought about all that from the get-go. They didn’t, and all in all, I think Dominion still succeeds as a film, prequel, and Exorcist prequel.
“…
omewhere in between is a worthy prequel.”I think that is both true and false. Dominion, as it is, works as a prequel. Things get SCARY later on, in the 1970s of the original film. Until then, Merrin was still an inexperienced exorcist, and very different person than who he became; plus, we’re talking a different time and place. Thus, the Devil has treated the various human beings differently, almost playfully. But when he’s defeated by Merrin, revenge goes on the drawing board, things get uglier, scarier, LATER ON. A good analogy might be: “When he was a young man, he went through all kinds of trials, making his way and finding his career. Times were OK. But years later, in old age and around retirement, his town was over-run by a bunch of gun-toting street gangs, and nightly gunshots could be heard resulting in murder headlines each following day. And he died in a gunfight of his own, when he decided to take matters into his own hands.” Look, it’s a loose analogy. It just goes to show us, though that certain types of events needn’t be present nor occur regularly in a person’s life — a fictional character’s life. A fictional character based in reality. (BTW: I don’t mean to sound too preachy or whatever… just enjoying this friendly discussion. Lots of good ideas from all of us here. And back to work I go…). 🙂
By the way, Dominion didn’t “forget” to “give us a chill” — again. It’s a different premise, script, etc. I mean, back to my analogy — before somebody goes through some dark, scary times much later in life, do they really need to experience even one “chill”? Only if the chills are paramount to the story, and are huge, life-changing events in themselves. One or two chills just wouldn’t fit with the rest of the film; they’d have been cut. It’s a different story, worlds apart from the Harlin version, and the original film. I guess, to put it simply, it is E:TB that “owes” us chill after chill. That’s the kind of film Morgan Creek made when they changed their mind. The events of Dominion, Father Merrin’s journey, it’s just a lighter chapter than the 1970s. The Devil wasn’t playing with a full deck until Georgetown; when it came to revenge, Satan meant business.
“But anyway your arguments have convinced me i missed something so im gonna purchase Dominion and have a look again.”
COOL! And I hope these new ones in response to yours might resonate afterward, if not before your next viewing of the film. 🙂
“As i said between the 2 i think there is a very decent movie one which perhaps a fan edit would bring out?”
I’m looking forward to THAT. It’s coming, you know, courtesy of Hatter! He lurks here. 🙂
M.I.K.E.
Indeed I do Lurk here, And I work on it almost every day, even if it’s just for a little while, But If your attempting to challange the official dvd, than it’s most defanetly going to take a while, I really hope for an october completeion, If was the kinda person that just slaps stuff together, it would have been done a long time ago.
But I hope it’s true that “All good things to those that wait”Ive loved reading Man In Khaki’s points they are written passionately by a fan of Dominion and i will be watching Dominion again rest assured. I love the original so much its hard to watch something with Exorcist in the title and not sit there and say give me the feeling i had age 13 ….its never coming back.
I do not want to sound like a big fan of ETB it was a very flawed, Harlins version is pure studio getting their cash back so it could also be said a lot of the dreadful sequences were probably studio driven so don’t be too harsh he is a very odd choice and not all of it was bad it did have a few creepy moments.
i could not wait to see Dominion but was on first viewing very let down ..sorry.Im gonna watch again with all you have said in mind.
For me it’s Dominion. I can’t watch ETB anymore, it’s boring, stupid, cliche, and makes no sense most of the time. At least Dominion leaves things open for disucssion, unlike ETB which throws everything at your face and then rubs it in. The story is far better in Dominion too, and I feel for the characters much more than in ETB.
Which one do you prefer?
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