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Blizzi.
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July 28, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18531
magus
ParticipantAs far as I know she didn’t play with the board. But I truly believe she was possessed.
July 28, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18534granville1
ParticipantI don’t recall anything about a ouija board or any other occult dabbling in Felicitas Goodman’s book. Anneliese’s first experiences – visions of demonic faces – were unmediated, “out of the blue” impressions.
I don’t believe the possession was genuine because it was fed by folk-fundamentalism, clerical gullibility, and medical incompetence.
Goodman demonstrates that the condition was aggravated by misdiagnosis and mis-prescription. Moreover, the content of Anneliese’s ravings, while unpleasant and “wickedly” nasty, did not exhibit any truly supernatural intelligence or activity.
Goodman suggests that Anneliese was undergoing a spontaneous, classic shamanic initiation experience, an event not uncommon in circumpolar and other native cultures.
The difference – and the harm – being that her culture did not recognize it as such. Its religious custodians saw only demonic possession, and its medical custodians were not broadly educated enough to see in her symptoms a classic shamanic vision-pattern.
The resulting mis-readings and mis-diagnoses killed the unfortunate girl.
Goodman shows how the peculiar but quite natural brain events involved in the Michel “possession” were holistic – with a definite beginning, middle, and denouement. The shamanic brain events are “meant” to unfold in a particular way – if allowed to do so, and if “correctly” interpreted by the custodians of a shamanically-knowledgable culture.
Tragically for Anneliese, no one knew what was really going on, and clerical and medical intervention interrupted the
necessary unfolding of the shamanic syndrome before it could reach its natural climax and return the subject once again to social normality.The result of this cultural failure was Anneliese’s descent into madness, starvation, and death.
July 29, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18569pazrags
Participantthanks so much granville for the info! you provided me. but what about the demons she named that posessed her and also hitler and other ones? Why did she name them? Also in real life did her eye pupils turn black black like in the movie?
July 29, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18573granville1
ParticipantThe “demons” were part and parcel of her hallucinating brain state, roughly analagous to the “spirits” encountered in shamanic initiation. The names with which she labeled them probably originated with the hallucinations themselves, or were Anneliese’s subjective interpretation of her own dissociated personality fragments.
As Felicitas Goodman pointed out in “The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel”, the “demons” were obviously taken from local Germanic figures, e.g., “Hitler” – and they used the working-class crudities of the lower-class people whom anyone in Anneliese’s social milieu would have experienced locally. (“Locally” is the key: these “demons” were all-too-human expressions, with no suggestion of truly supernatural nonmaterial malevolent personalities.)
Sorry, I do not recall whether or not her eye color changed.
August 3, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18667pazrags
ParticipantThanks agin granville1 for your reply. Like usual your expertise helped me again! Sorry I havent read the whole book. But what about the times she had said that the so called demons wouldn’t allow her to eat. How was she doing that? I mean was she doing it to herself and why would she do that? or not touching sacred objects and showing fury towards them? And her superhuman strength like it said when she crushed an apple with one of her hands. I mean what happened to her during these times? no paranormal activity? Her story is so wierd and chilling!!
August 4, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18670granville1
ParticipantI don’t think of those things you listed as paranormal activity…
The demons telling her to eat is just delusion, and her delusional response was… not to eat. Or, to fast – which again puts her in a similar condition to shamans going thru an ordeal of fasting. Her delusions caused her to stop eating, to practice anorexea. That’s not paranormal, it’s just sick. You ask why she was doing it – well, probably because her mental illness drove her to it. She could have had an unconscious need to punish herself, or in her dissociated state, felt that the “demonic” compulsions were too strong to resist.
Not touching sacred objects – again, that’s not paranormal, it’s just acting out the kind of behavior that is expected when one is – or thinks one is – “possessed”.
Superhuman strength _might_ sometimes indicate paranormality, but does crushing an apple require superhuman strength? I doubt it. Even greater feats of strength do not require a paranormal explanation, e.g., the famous example in the Friedkin film, given by Dr Tanney, of the mother who lifts a car off her child. Enhanced strength, sure, but not “superhuman”.
You’re entitled to think that the Michel case was genuine, but I just don’t see in it any evidence of the supernatural, based on Goodman’s book. Her story is weird and chilling, but not due to any supernatural intervention, just to the wild, bleak landscape of insanity.
August 5, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18685Blizzi
ParticipantYou can’t tell us you aren’t a writer, pal. 😉 Non-fiction with feeling is a rare talent.
August 5, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18687granville1
ParticipantBlizzi, shucks, …blush…
August 5, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18688Blizzi
ParticipantYou deserve all your compliments. And, if you have hotmail IM, can you give me your address? It would be great to talk to you there. 🙂
August 5, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18689granville1
ParticipantThank you Blizzi, but no, I don’t have the hotmail IM…
August 5, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18690Blizzi
ParticipantOh, that’s too bad… I’ve been on with Sof, Justy, Ryan, Cap and Mike for about a week and I enjoy it. Miss you though. 😉
August 6, 2007 at 11:59 PM #13051pazrags
Participantdid annielese michael use the oujia board or playing with something that got her possessed? And was the possession geunine?? sorry, I just dont know much about it exceptfor the the movie that I saw.
August 6, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18699granville1
ParticipantYou guys have fun…! I’ll stay in contact here on Howdy…
August 6, 2007 at 11:59 PM #18700Blizzi
ParticipantAll right then. 🙂
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