Chris’s atheism

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  • #13845
    Pazuzus Petals
    Participant

    This was mentioned on another thread, but I didn't want to hijack the thread for another lengthy exigesis there, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

     

    So it's said that in the novel, at any rate, Chris maintains her atheism despite what she has seen.

     

    I think this is a good opportunity, then, to clarify what I think is a misconception about atheism, skepticism, and the scientific viewpoint.

     

    These things, and I'm going to lump them together as synonymous just for the sake of a less verbose argument, are not fixed positions— they're an attitude.  A state of mind.  A way of thinking.

     

    Let's say we didn't live in our real world where the laws of physics are immutable and constant throughout the universe, but rather in the fictional world of The Exorcist.

     

    If we were good skeptics with a scientific mindset about things, and if we experienced what Chris experienced, and if we absolutely exhausted all possible explanations of the natural world, and if we had no choice but to come to the inevitable conclusion that something supernatural occurred, then the scientific mindset would demand the concession to the possibility that the supernatural exists.  On the basis of evidence, science adjusts.  As it is said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  If you experienced what Chris experienced, then you would be within your rights to consider that extraordinary evidence to the extraordinary claim that the supernatural exists.

     

    The only problem is that here in the real world, claims of the supernatural are always debunked by natural explanations.  Always.  There is no evidence that UFOs have ever visited us, there is no evidence that homeopathy works any better than a placebo, there is no evidence that an e-meter will help you clear your reactive mind so you can attain personal growth, there is no evidence that anybody has ever been possessed by a demon, there is no evidence that ghosts really exist, and, I'm also very sorry to report, but virgins do not give birth, people do not walk on water, which, in turn, never turns into wine.

     

    Isn't the real miracle (in the metaphorical sense) that we live in an orderly universe with predictable physical laws?  Isn't a wonderful thing to have confidence that the power of gravity will demand that the sun will rise and set today, tomorrow, and for the foreseeable future?  Isn't the real miracle that people actually don't walk on water, that virgins really don't give birth, and that demons really don't possess people?  Isn't the real miracle that we live in a universe whose enigmas are actually knowable, discoverable, posing a great challenge to humanity and offering us great meaning as we meet those challenges?

     

    If there is extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that the supernatural exists, then the scientific mindset would concede its existence.  The problem is that nobody has ever produced this extraordinary evidence.  As someone once said, “It annoys me whenever anybody says that science doesn't know everything.  Well, of course it doesn't.  If it did, it would stop.”

    #25284
    fatherbowdern
    Participant

    “If there is extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that the supernatural exists, then the scientific mindset would concede its existence.”

    This is a great summation. Obviously, you and I have studied sciences and religions extensively. Further, this could be a very interesting conversation based on the theories of concrete logic versus abstract thinking.

    Hypothesis and theories are exactly what makes life interesting, even from an approach that Blatty took with The Exorcist. Atheism is but one of Blatty's clever ideologies presented in his writings while clinging to the human sides of both religion and science.

    What does this mean? Well, think about Chris sitting around the table with the doctors at the Barringer Clinic while being probed about her or her daughter's religious beliefs. That scene expresses two sides of the equation: religion and science. I won't go any further because it is up to the viewer to determine why and how religion played a part in the outcome that led to the scientific suggestion of exorcism as a cure.

    Father Bowdern

    #25285

    “If there is extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that
    the supernatural exists, then the scientific mindset would concede its
    existence.”

     

    Some people of a scientific mindset would concede.  Others would continue to disbelieve “though one were raised from the dead” as someone once said.  There are rational skeptics and there are the embarassing noisy ones with huge emotional chips on their shoulders about religion.  The latter type would never give in.  I say this as someone who is mostly skeptical about the supernatural.

    #25286
    fraroc
    Participant

    Wow so many Exorcist intillectuals on this site! (Pazuzu's Petals,ugotugotugotwhatiwant, and granville1)

    #25288
    fatherbowdern
    Participant

    Those darn “intillectuals” will you get every time.  Smile

    Father Bowdern

    #25290
    fraroc
    Participant

    I spelled it wrong? oh fuck! 🙂

    #25298
    Sofia
    Participant

    “If there is extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that the supernatural exists, then the scientific mindset would concede its existence.”

     

    wow…. yes, but, there are a lot of things in this world that cannot be explained by science.

     

    “Those darn “intillectuals” will you get every time. “

    lol…

     Well, Father B, you are most certainly on that list of intellectuals too!

    Hugs!

    #25345
    fatherbowdern
    Participant

    Sofia said:

    “If there is extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that the supernatural exists, then the scientific mindset would concede its existence.”

     

    wow…. yes, but, there are a lot of things in this world that cannot be explained by science.

     

    “Those darn “intillectuals” will you get every time. “

    lol…

     Well, Father B, you are most certainly on that list of intellectuals too!

    Hugs!


    Hugs back at ya, Sof!

    “wow…. yes, but, there are a lot of things in this world that cannot be explained by science.”

    That is very true and inspires the creativity in humanity. Sometimes it's very unfortunate that science dispels many beliefs; i.e., the Shroud of Turin. With a Catholic upbringing, I was fascinated with the authenticity of the cloth containing the image of Christ created from His own blood.

    The church then gave permission to scientists to prove it was indeed an empirical and conclusive piece of Christian history. Sadly, scientists used carbon dating, 3D imagery, blood typing, and the list goes on. Science insists that it is a forgery perpetrated by a medieval artisan.

    However, if we choose to think outside of this scientific box, perhaps that very image on the Shroud is actually real with every intention at the time of creation to challenge our beliefs in the power of God.

    #25354
    Sofia
    Participant

    I agree with you, Fatherb. :o)

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