[ReganMacNeilfan]

Now that I like!! 😀 not the design they used in Dominion. By the way in beginning is that howdy we see in the mirror for a split second before it breaks?

[granville1]

hatter76 said:

Granville,your pretty on the nose, Im not so great with words.

 

===

I think you are good with words, and thank you for the kind words and insights into Dominion.

[hatter76]

Well granville, from 2006 to 2010(when my health got to bad)  I worked on my Fan Cut of Dominion, finishing some of the unfinished visual FX shots, Adjusting the brithness and contrast of the film, Enhanceing sounds here and there,  working in deleted scenes and a few little bits from ETB,   not to make a differen't film, but to make a more finished looking and sounding film, as well as fleshing a few things out.

 

So in a sense, Ive  been was married to the film for sometime,   and had to look at ETB far more than I wanted to

[granville1]

My hat is off to you 🙂

[hatter76]

oh what a coincidence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[granville1]

Great catch hatter 🙂 

 

Love it 🙂

[hatter76]

granville1 said:

Great catch hatter 🙂 

 

Love it 🙂

 

I figured you would

[ReganMacNeilfan]

oh what a coincidence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh cool and never noticed before.

[Beelzebub]

hatter76 said:

“The Beginning might have delivered the goods on levels that Dominion didn't,   but  the movie is to desperete to connect dots that the story turns to moosh.”

True. But don't forget my friend that the “reason” for that is that Renny Harlin was under an extremely tight schedule. He had a very short deadline to meet set by the studio since they were very late behind schedule due to Paul Schrader's poor version of the prequel. Lets say that Harlin did the best from a bad situation…just like Boorman did.

“The Beginning does not exist to me, but thats just me,   if someone else enjoys it, then thats good to, nice too know someone could like it.”

I can respect that LOL. As long as we are all happy in our own ways, thats all that matters.

“Both movies Got things right that the other got wrong, and both of them failed to deliver  totally satisfying movie.”

Well said. “Dominion” had that tense psychological power that “Beginning” lacks. But “Beginning” succeeds in being more graphic and violent. Combining both movies together, the “prequel” could have been just as good as the first “EXORCIST”.

 

[hatter76]

I might bash Harlins movie, but I'm not placing the blame on his doorstep,   when Schrader was still involved, I had no idea who he was, I had to read up about him,  but from the interviews I read when he was still doing his, I felt it certainly would  not be a typical Horror film, which was fine by me, I don't care for most contemporary horror. but I was hoping for something in the vein of the 3rd film.

When Schrader was out of the picture, that was obviously a huge WTF,   When Harlin's name came up I kind of scratched my head, I had seen a few of his films, I was certain he could pull it off from a technical standpoint.

Then it became official that it was not a handful of reshoots,  it was to replace virtually everything that had just been done, a new film all together,  very big mess.

 

I Honestly do believe Harlin tried to make the best movie he could given all the things he had counting against him,   and for a brief period after it came out, I was trying to tell myself it was better than I really felt it was, for a short time I found myself defending it,  but there was nothing else for me to compare it to, except of course the talk about Schrader's film getting released,  and that's what my interest shifted toward.

If Exorcist The Beginning is all that there really was in regards to a Prequel,  I don't think I would be as disappointed with it,  but there was another film, and like many other people, I wanted to know what was so bad about it that it needed to be completely remade.

ETB, had a lot of the Atmosphere and Visual Flare I was hoping for, the movie had an edginess and grittiness that I really liked,  I certainly liked the Pazuzu Statue, the little head and that Medallion on the other hand I felt was too much, and instead of feeling like something that would flow into the original film, those to things turned out feeling forced.

Ultimately, the things I did like about ETB  were mostly superficial,  the movie didn't leave me with anything on an intellectual level,    part 1 and 3  definitely provided me with things to think about, even though 3 was not as it was intended to be, it's still had some strong themes in it, and the demon in that film actually creeped me out,  I laughed at the Demon in the first movie,  but the one in part 3  was genuinely disturbing to me, I would not want to be stuck in a cell with that wretched thing,   and although it put on a show, it didn't have to be profane and vulgar to be frightening,    so when that stuff was in ETB,  I was disgusted for all the wrong reasons,  it really felt like a joke, the voice I thought sounded damn good, but the makeup(mostly the cuts on the face)  screamed rehash rather than homage, and the Demon's dialogue and actions were just a big fat joke.

 

but no, I think Harlin did his best under the circumstances,      I blame Jimbo

[Beelzebub]

hatter76 said:

“For me Dominion is the superior film, maybe not a great one, and has some missed opertunities,  but it does feel more like an Exorcist film thematically.”

You enjoy “Dominion” HATTER76, my respects to you. Allow me to share why it is not a valuable “prequel”. I'll try to use as less words as possible…

FIRST RULE FOR A PREQUEL. You need a very strong LINK that will immidiately connect to the first movie. And there is always only ONE that will connect both movies. Which one is it? Think hard HATTER76. Use your passion for the franchise and you will find it. What can possibly connect both movies with such a strong bound?

Here is the answer: In “EXORCIST 1”, when Merrin finds the little Pazuzu statue in Iraq, it is clear by his reaction, that he is both shocked and suprised by the founding. He recognizes the object like he has seen it before. THAT IS YOUR ULTIMATE CONNECTION. You don't need anything else for a prequel. That is the reason why “DOMINION” fails right from the start. Paul Schrader missed this little detail because he is not a hardcore fan of the “EXCORCIST”. Renny Harlin, on the other hand, immidiately saw this “opening” because he is a fan of the “EXORCIST”. Thats why “Beginning” is superior to “Dominion”. “Dominion” has no connection whatsover with the first “EXCORCIST”. Thus it cannot be called a “prequel”. 

 

“And thats how I tried to present it in my mock teaser,  to connect the themes.”

You made that little teaser? Bravo! You have talent my friend! Well done. Now how about telling me how you can I bring a video in here. I'm so stupid I don't know how. Thanks.

 

 “I like the Africanized version of Pazuzu in Dominion, although I do have my moments where I wish it would have resembled the Iraq version a bit more, I've grown to accept it the way it is.”

Connections are very important in prequels and sequels. In “HERETIC” Boorman made 9 connections which is a gigantic feat considering all the problems he went through. In “Ninth Configuration”, Blatty only had 1 connection, and it had nothing to do with possession nor Pazuzu. “Dominion” also has only 1 connection, which is only Merrin. “Beginning” has 10 connections. This being said, in “Dominion” the Pazuzu statue should have been the IRAQ version for a complete connection.

 

“I prefer the idea that the Demons tactics are not quite the same in Dominion,  the Demon is in a differn't setting, dealing with differn't people, it's not Manifesting through a little girl,  it's not not trying to shock people with a littler girl doing vulgar and disgusting things,   that was always part of the act,  it was perfectly capable and willing to speak in more civilized fashion, but doing that through a little girl would not be very effective.”

Innocent idea. But unfortunately, in real life, the mission of a “demon” or “evil” spirit is to shock and scare the shit out of us mortals. Trying to make us feel inferior and weak. They have no time to be polite, civilized or social.

 

“I think that would have played out better, it also would have been a great way to Put Merrin through so much physical Strain that he even has a stroke or a heart attack in the process, but stell defeats the Demon.”

That would have been playing with fire. Not a good idea. If he would haved suffered a stroke right in the first prequel, or a heart attack, Merrin officially could not have been chosen by the Catholic Church in performing the excorcism on Regan. Like I mentioned before somewhere, it is part of the procedures set by the Vatican to allow a priest to perform an exorcism. He has to be in top health.

[Beelzebub]

hatter76 said:

“…under the right lighting and angles, Skarsgard bares a creepy resemblance to Max. I liked the Idea of Liam Neeson playing Merrin…”

Liam Neeson as father Merrin?…YES! I love the idea! Damn it, why didn't I picture that before. Thanks HATTER76 for that little detail. In my opinion Liam Neeson has a stonger personality and a more imposing physique than Skarsgard. But thats me.

[Beelzebub]

hatter76 said:

“I like the Africanized version of Pazuzu in Dominion, although I do have my moments where I wish it would have resembled the Iraq version a bit more, I've grown to accept it the way it is.”

 It is important to be faithful to the first movie, but also reality.

“Pazuzu is often depicted as a combination of diverse animal and human parts. He has the body of a man, the head of a lion or dog, eagle-like taloned feet, two pairs of wings, a scorpion's tail, and a serpentine penis. He is often depicted with his right hand pointing upward and left hand pointing down.” Reference Wikipedia.

Again, “Dominion” fails in showing us the real Pazuzu and connecting the dots.

[Beelzebub]

ReganMacNeilfan said:

“Where is Pazuzu in this film Dominion?”

Let me think…uh…got it. Nowhere!

[hatter76]

Beelzebub,

 

sharing your Opinion is fine.

 

but it would be more polite of you not  to take  the “Guess what” approach  to explaining things.

 

 

I don't have to think about what one link will connect 2 movies,   because technically I don't have to do anything,   but as far as this particular subject is concerned, my interpretation of what would link the 2 movies together was decided 15 years ago,  when this film was rumored to be in the works.

 

 

now about the little Pazuzu head, I do agree that it should be a link, but I agree because when I first really sat through the exorcist about 16-17 years ago, I immediately  felt that there was a history to the opening scenes in Iraq,   Merrin's Reaction was  very clear to me then and it is now, and your right about his reaction.  I always wanted the Prequel to touch on that specific element,  I personally just did not care for how it was done in Exorcist the Beginning,  and was disappointed that it wasn't touched upon in Dominion.

 

But The Exorcist is not about that little head, it does serve a function to the story, but it's not the story.

 

I think we both know that your not very accurate in your statement “Dominion” has no connection whatsover with the first “EXCORCIST”. Thus it cannot be called a “prequel”. 

 

 

to be blunt that's bullshit and you know it, now maybe in your opinion Dominion has no connection.

 

but again that would be bullshit too,  If your implying that Merrin himself does not link the 2 movies,  then again, I call bullshit, and will call bullshit until the day I day(perhaps you'll get lucky and God will croak me today)

 

now Merrin in general, is not stupid, as an archeologist as well as the other various things on that long list of what he is, he should have some idea of what the Pazuzu head would represent, he should certainly know that it's a demon.

 

 

The suggestion that a Demon would not have a Civilized conversation, is where I call bullshit again.

A Demon would in all likelihood do whatever it had to do to accomplish it's mission, manifest itself in any number of ways, project itself as any number of personalities, after all, it is ultimately a desperate entity

 

as for the depiction of Pazuzu, why does the Iraq version have to be the Real Pazuzu? there have been various depictions, the Iraq version from the Exorcist is just the most recognized

 

 

 

[Author]

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