[splake]

Like I said,  we all have our believes, and opinions.  It can get a little hairy when we get into discussions of faith and belief.   Especially something as hard core as good and evil, God and demons, But all in all, it is important to listen to others opinons, although it does not change what I feel , it is important ( always important) to have an open mind and open heart.  I have read all many of the criticisms of the Michel exorcism, but like the Doctors explain the Chris McNeil when they suggest an exorcism,  that the subject's belief that they are possessed,(whether valid or not)  is the very thing that may make an exorcism successful.  And if the church can show the things that determine whether to carry out an exorcism  #1- Unnatural strength,  #2- Knowing things that one can not possibly know, and #3- speaking a language they have never been exposed to or studied..  then I say go for it.  It would help to have a M.D. present.     there are many many exorcisms in the Good Book, that I would not question Christ himself of the validity.  but I am sure that is another topic for another time,

 

Later my friends.

 

T.

[fatherbowdern]

Splake,

I would never want to influence anyone about their faith or beliefs and I appreciate yours as an individual.

You make very valid points drawn directly from the book and film, The Exorcist. As you wrote:

“#1 – Unnatural strength, #2 – Knowing things that one can not possibly know, and #3 – speaking a language they have never been exposed to or studied” are creative concepts used to describe the very essence of the character that Blatty carefully constructed for all us to enjoy.

Unfortunately, Anneliese Michel did not suffer from one of the above supernatural abilities. To me, this is where things can get “hairy” because science should have played an important role in her case. I would think that even Christ, had he been alive and called upon when her case happened, would have wanted to “exhaust the somatic and psychiatric possibilities first [paraphrasing very loosely here]” before attempting something as intense as exorcism.

Father B

[ReganMacNeilfan]

I must say interesting thoughts indeed. Shocking to find what you did in a church. 🙂

[granville1]

I'd like to second Fr. Bowdern's statement that the Michel case did not exhibit any parnormalia, and if it had, parapsychology has naturalistic, rather than supernaturalistic, methods of explanation. This is what tormented Karras in the novel – every time he was presented with a seemingly supernatural event, his research kept throwing him back into naturalistic explanations. Further, the content of the Michel “demon's” speech did not exhibit any preternatural wisdom of the kind that Blatty was careful to impute to the demon of his novel. The Michel case was mental illness, and the symptoms, such as the deep, booming voice, are naturalistically explainable. Michel's doctors and priests unconsciously acted in collusion to make her sicker, and sealed her fate.

[fatherbowdern]

granville1 said:

I'd like to second Fr. Bowdern's statement that the Michel case did not exhibit any parnormalia, and if it had, parapsychology has naturalistic, rather than supernaturalistic, methods of explanation. This is what tormented Karras in the novel – every time he was presented with a seemingly supernatural event, his research kept throwing him back into naturalistic explanations. Further, the content of the Michel “demon's” speech did not exhibit any preternatural wisdom of the kind that Blatty was careful to impute to the demon of his novel. The Michel case was mental illness, and the symptoms, such as the deep, booming voice, are naturalistically explainable. Michel's doctors and priests unconsciously acted in collusion to make her sicker, and sealed her fate.

gran, that last sentence is gloriously true …

[granville1]

Thank you, Fr. Bowdern. The whole thing was just a travesty. She had no Dr's Klein and Tanney, nor did she have the sharp, cutting intellect and complete honesty of a Fr. Karras.  I'm somewhat agnostic on the question of the afterlife, but if it exists, I hope she is resting among the Blessed.

[fatherbowdern]

granville1 said:

Thank you, Fr. Bowdern. The whole thing was just a travesty. She had no Dr's Klein and Tanney, nor did she have the sharp, cutting intellect and complete honesty of a Fr. Karras.  I'm somewhat agnostic on the question of the afterlife, but if it exists, I hope she is resting among the Blessed.

 

Great reply as usual, gran. Enjoy the upcoming holidays!

Father B

[granville1]

Thanks, Fr. – and Happy Holidays to you 🙂

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