[Benocles_Czar]

Friends,

In studying the case of Rob Doe (being the possessed young individual who influenced Blatty to write The Exorcist), I am curious to know if anyone has studied the case of Anneliese Michel and if so, whether they believe it to be real?

Cheers & God Bless
Benjamin Szumskyj
Editor, AMERICAN EXORCIST

[hammer horror]

I didn’t study it, but I live in Germany and I know very well the story. Well, in my opinion, it was not a case of possession.

[howdythere]

Well, since possession is not real, no.

I have read a lot about Anneliese Michel. She was extremely religious, and if you look at the environment in which she lived, she was a perfect candidate to believe in a supernatural explanation to fault all her problems on.

I’m sure you’ve listened to the tapes of her during her exorcism sessions, Benocles_Czar?

[Witch of Endor]

Who is Rob Doe? I thought it was Ronald Hunkler that influenced Blatty.

[fatherbowdern]

dsea, Rob Doe and Ronald Hunkeler are one in the same.

The supernaturally possessed portrayal of Anneliese Michel occurs in the American film, “The Possession of Emily Rose.” The best online “featurette” I could find is below. The movie version challenges the medical society against the religious society. The film’s bottom line philosophizes the terms of Aristotle’s Virtue Ethics versus those set forth by God in the Bible.

Anneliese was indeed a victim on both counts – from both philosophies. If Anneliese was a paranoid schizophrenic deprived of her medications by the priest while under a physician’s care at the same time, who is to blame for her demise? In this theory, the priest is wrong and the attending physician is wrong.

Theories, theories, theories. I would have to examine the case more in-depth, but I believe her “possession,” or more instinctively, her mental ailments are all a part of the unloving, self-interested individuals who did not act rationally on either end of the scale.

Dying from malnutrition in the mid-1970’s is a disgrace regardless of Anneliese’s circumstance, either medically or religiously. To stipulate if a person has a mental condition or is legitimately possessed leaves the door wide open, in my opinion, for the obvious: medical intervention was a necessity and everyone turned a blind eye to Anneliese’s physical condition. She did not die from the demons within her; she died from the demons in the form of irrational human beings surrounding her.

Look here.

[Benocles_Czar]

Friends,

howdythere — remember, that’s your opinion… 🙂

fatherbowdern — great post. It is one of those cases I am unsure of, but if I had to choose a side, I would say that she wasn’t. I believe in possession, I believe in mental illness, and I believe it possible that demons would purposely possess a mentally ill person. But I question some of the supernatural events in the case (i.e. the vision of Mary for example as this is not biblical) and as you say, all scientific avenues were not explored fully.

Cheers & God Bless
Benjamin Szumskyj
Editor, AMERICAN EXORCIST

[fatherbowdern]

Ben, you are so on target.

In a semi-parallel contrast to Anneliese and Regan (or Ronald Hunkeler), is the case in point provided by Blatty in both the novel and script for The Exorcist regarding Regan’s “mental-health condition.” I am referencing the first scene in which we see Regan physically manifested by the demon. The neurologist that accompanies Dr. Klein to the urgent situation at the McNeil household is the one on cue.

Blatty wrote the neurologist’s lines with the attentive detail that would cover all angles of naysayers regarding Regan’s physical and neurological condition(s); i.e., the neurologist is covering the somatic (nervous or neurological system) aspects as he should as a neurologist.

The neurologist’s lines are a solution rather than a hypothesis, which is why Blatty’s material speaks volume about his writing abilities. That entire scene is, “as good as it gets,” in my opinion (along with the Kinderman/Chris “tea party” scene.)

Neurologist to Chris McNeil: “Now I know the temptation would lead to psychiatry. But, any reasonable psychiatrist would exhaust the somatic possibilities first.”

Anneliese Michel, as you refer to in my posting Ben, was a tragedy based on the circumstances in which she lived. We must remember too, that in the 1970s, anti-psychotic medications were being tested more rampantly than ever in medical history. I do not know Anneliese’s psychiatric ailment other than being a paranoid schizophrenic probably being treated with lithium-based medications. Lithium, when used as a form of treatment can cause severe problems when overused and toxicity sets in. This toxicity ranges from the partially benign loss of appetite to the severity of convulsions. Lithium could have been the culprit causing the severe malnutrition and convulsions. However, it was supposedly taken away from her and that leaves “the mystery.”

Ben, when you say, “But I question some of the supernatural events in the case (i.e. the vision of Mary for example as this is not biblical),” what do you mean by your “that is” example? Let me in on the Marian Vision and why it’s not biblical in this sense for Anneliese. I’m unclear in her example. I guess I’m going back in my mind to the children of Our Lady of Fatima.

[Benocles_Czar]

fatherbowdern,

As a Christian, when it comes to supernatural matters concerning the Bible, I believe in all those events and acts that occur within. As such, I believe in biblical phenomena, from healing, resurrection and prophecy, to angelic visitations, demonic possessions and exorcism, but do not believe in Electronic Voice Phenomenon (as Blatty does) or related supernatural activities. If such activities exist, I do not believe they are empowered by God as there is no biblical evidence to support them and they do not appear to be glorifying God (1 Corinthians 10:31). Other Christians are free to disagree, but that is my opinion.

So, regarding visions of Mary (and stigmata for another example), I do not believe they are genuine. Why? Well, they didn’t occur in the Bible and by their nature, are not truly biblically. A great article to read (which explains it better than I) can be read here: http://www.gotquestions.org/lady-fatima.html

Hope that helps…
🙂

Cheers & God Bless
Benjamin Szumskyj
Editor, AMERICAN EXORCIST

[fatherbowdern]

Triple-entry of the same above.

[fatherbowdern]

Double-entry of the same above.

[fatherbowdern]

Ben, this goes back to my earlier posting somewhere on here that I don’t buy into the paintings of Christ or Mother Mary that have blood dribbling from their eyes, yet are professed as “holy events.” I don’t think God would put blood into the eyes of a painting to emphasize that his Son nor his Mother are crying over the status of the world. That’s not “earth shattering;” it’s “earthly works.”

“The only way to determine whether an apparition is a “lying wonders” or a genuine message from God is to compare the apparition with Scripture. If the teachings that are attached to these apparitions are contrary to the Word of God, the apparitions themselves are then Satanic in nature. A study of the teachings of Our Lady Fatima with its “Miracle of the Sun” is a good example.”

While I was raised a Catholic, I was surrounded in the intercity of various beliefs of the Baptist, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Judaism, etc. The people factor of the interpretation of the Word of varies tremendously. Thusly, this fills the voids and creates gaps from religion to religion.

As far as EVP and other far-fetched ideologies, I couldn’t agree more with you.

Thanks for the link I encourage others to read it.

[Witch of Endor]

Hi Ben, although I don’t believe in electronic voice phenomena either, I find your reasoning to be a bit bizarre. You say you don’t believe it in because it wasn’t in the bible, but if I’m not very mistaken tape recorders didn’t exist when the bible was written. Wouldn’t that be like saying you don’t believe in cars because there were no cars in the bible?

[Benocles_Czar]

dseabroo,

I can see how you came to that conclusion! 🙂 No, what I mean is that, as a supernatural phenomenon, I don’t believe that the dead can’t talk to the living, as there’s no evidence for it in the Bible and the Bible clearly teaches that such things theologically can not be! And before someone calls out “what about the “witch of Endor?” (1 Samuel 28:7-20), God allowed it in this one exception. So in regards to EVP, such a claim is a demonic deception (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). For more on this issue, check out this link: http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-the-dead.html

Cheers & God Bless
Benjamin Szumskyj
Editor, AMERICAN EXORCIST

[fatherbowdern]

Good point again, Ben:

“The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death ‘because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance’ (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14).

I think, dsea, as time evolves along with man’s latest “devices,” this is still a part of God’s ultimate plan. EVP is just another form of masquerade much like the exorcisms of the “self-proclaimed exorcist,” Bob Larson (hair plugs and all). If you don’t know Larson (I did a post on here somewhere already), then you need to watch this video.

Larson is a symbolic embodiment of “EVP” and could not be more phony … and he’s getting richer and richer doing so. He’s performed over 6,000 exorcisms on a public scale. Exorcism is a private ritual. It’s not one in which the “exorcist” sells goods and services that rake in profit during free conferences. According to Larson, 50% of the population is possessed and public exorcism is a necessity. Huh? 50%? That means that I, as the writer, or you, as the reader, is already possessed! Dear God, call Max von Sydow! “Me thinks Larson is full shit instead of the spirit.” I do hope you’ll watch the video above until the end where Larson squirms over the, “gotcha journalism questions!”

In this short piece, you will hear Fr. Thomas Rausch of Loyola Marymount University give the best description of possession and the best rationale, in my opinion. Okay, my science philosophies play into this opinion. But, when a priest says it too, I can’t help but agree that the very vast majority of possessions can be attributed to a somatic and/or psychosomatic condition while psychological issues play out as well.

[Witch of Endor]

If Larson is full of shit how do you even begin to classify Fred Phelps?

Interesting article Ben. I guess the gist of it is that the death of a person is part of God’s will and trying to communicate with a person that is dead is an attempt to undermind the will of God that that person not be available to answer anymore.

Still, for me its a question of observation. If you were to experience EVP yourself would you be willing to reject your own senses? Again I do not believe in, and have never experienced EVP.

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